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Satellite Broadband

#1
Having previously worked in Satellite communications, I have been investigating offering Satellite Broadband installations in Lincolnshire, and am interested in everyones views as to likely demand, experiences (if you already have satellite broadband).

Thanks in advance.

Craig Miles

Yesway Communications, Lincolnshire
#2
Yer it is a option but sadly the ping  is far to slow for anything good like playign online games. which uses the most internet.


So sadly there is no future in this.
#3
Strange logic this Ryan. We are not all into playing games.I too have looked into this option, and asked around. It seems for almost every other use, satellite has much to offer, but it is expensive at the moment. Does anyone know of any subsidies for this? I see that it's free in Wales!
#4
Satellite can be a viable option for users who have no access to broadband any other way - it's used by many businesses and individuals around the world and the UK.

There are issues with "latency" i.e. how long it takes the signal to travel to the satellite and back (the "ping" that Ryan mentions) that make online gaming not really viable and other broadband uses such as Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) difficult.

However, for ordinary web usage such as web browsing, emails, updating social media etc, it's absolutely fine.

If you want to find out more - follow this link to the Jargon Busters section of this website and look at the Satellite Broadband section (You may have to cut & paste this link!)- http://www.onlincolnshire.org/How-we-can-help/Jargon-Busters

Two new satellites HYLAS 1 and Ka-Sat were launched last year. They may offer cheaper and faster broadband via this route  - they are currently becoming operational.

Unfortunately though we don't have any subsidies for satellite provision in Lincolnshire.

John
#5
As the user of Tooway satellite for the last 3 months I am extremely satisfied. I find it meets all my requirements well, including speaking with people in the States, New Zealand, Oz and the UK via Skype.  

The latter works well with no delay due to the satellite latency, although, outside of Skype, I cannot comment on specialist Video Conferencing packages.  I would assume, from my Skype experience, that there would not be an issue with the latter either.

I agree the latency, measured at 837ms for me, is a killer for interactive games of the driving and shoot'em up variety.  Which, fortunately, I do not subscribe to.

My desktops and servers are running 24/7 from home and the satellite link works fine.

The installation cost (contractor for me), monthly fee and equipment costs are quite reasonable.  The equipment costs were just over £one hundred, and the lowest speed (6Mbps down/1Mbps up) is the same as the more expensive ADSL monthly charges.

Currently I can buy a 10Mbps down/2Mbps up package which is more than most would pay, the downer is the AUP and usage.

For ADSL slow and not-spots this technology is an affordable alternative.
#6
Having used satellite system for some years during the early days of our business start-up at Ingham. I had to abandon its use due to the 750mSec delay for all interactions -  this often produced a "time out" response from the other end on ack responses.
As a result this was part of the insigation to start LINPOPs over air ground based operation. This has about 1.5mSec ping times between hops. Typically we are looking to have no more than 5 hops to a target site from a main feeder site.
This then gives a ping time of around 7.5msec addition from the core internet source - this is typically 20-30msec for LINPOP. Don't forget it is  typically 30-50msec for any type of cable supply from a BT exchange.
Dr K       
Dr Vaughan Kitchin)


#7
Well, I have now been using 2 way satellite (not a games player) for over 16 months now and am satisfied.  

I can Skype to friends across the world, as well as the usual Banking, transfer money, browse OK, etc.

Until last week the maximum download speed was 10Mbps, with an upload of 4Mbps (more expensive end of packages).

I was looking around the web site of my satellite ISP and see they have upgraded the connection packages.  Maximum download speeds have risen to 18Mbps with upload speeds now @6Mbps.

Interestingly, the ISP has kept the same price points for these new faster speeds offered, as well as increasing the usage package a customer gets.

Now satellite is giving us, near Long Bennington, speeds nearly that of an ADSL2+,
#8
Discussion with Tooway's technical people, after the recent change to 2 way satellite download maximum speeds from 10Mbps to 18Mbps, was looking beyond this recent upgrade at the same prices.

Apparently the satellite is set up to deliver 40Mbps when they want to release the speeds. Possibly in 18 months.

Problem still remains with satellite is the latency, which is noticeable on web pages uploading. Also it is impossible for gamers. So, as said before - Skyping, online banking and money transfers, uploading and downloading fies, etc, is not affected.  But, I understand that private home to business tunnels can also be set up.

I am happy using the 2 way satellite link.

What with Sky and the satellite, there seems to be a lot of satellite dishes hanging off walls ere.,
#9
I live in a Residential Park Home in Dogdyke and the Park Owners would not pay for fibre optics which I understand is the fastest. I therefore have to use Sky which is via a telephone link and our phones are too far away from the BT control to speed up the service.
Anythin g that can be done in my rural area would be good.,
#10
Alaxander

You are correct that Fibre is the fastest technology, and friends of my in Germany (city) now get 100 Mbps down.,
#11
Hi Alexander, I know your area well chap over there Len, has been boosting your registrations significantly. You suffer from having a limited supply of green cabinets which may ultimately be the big bug bear. We are looking at alternative solutions if you end up in the 10% so watch this space.,
#12
I have only just subscribed to the Onlincolnshire forum so I am a bit behind on thie subject.

I want to make some comments about satellite bb and fixed line.

We are located about 7 miles from LIncoln city centre, living between two villages on a farm. There are two houses on the farm and the line terminates at our neighbours house about 400 yards away. We get 0.5 meg on our fixed line connection , I get frustrated that it is so slow but we don't download films, we don't play online games (apart from Scrabble!) but we run 3 businesses on it, we use an accounts package in the cloud and save files in the cloud. I have a friend in Spain and I am able to speak to him on Facetime (Facebook's Skype), the only problem was the signal dropping and having to reconnect fairly regularly.

One of our computers is too far from the router to get a decent signal so we bought a signal booster now we are getting 0.75 meg!

Our neighbour installed satellite late last year and likes to tell us of his 20 meg connection, but speaking to his partner a couple of days ago it seems that the latency problem is an issue when she is working from home, the time to connect to her companies server is considerable.

I will stick with my half meg until we are upgraded during phase 8 in 2016!
#13
Re the above message from Phil above I note that you say your neighbour's house is about 400 yards away and that could be significant. It may still be worth having a discussion with one of the satellitle companies because you may get a better signal that your neighbour. Without knowing precisely where you are it could be that fixed wireless may be an option so it may be worth giving some of those suppliers a call.

http://www.onlincolnshire.org/broadband-for-residents/other-solutions
#14
Would love to find out about the options for satellite so count me in as interested.
Can those that already have satellite post some examples of costs and speeds they get?
#15
I have been using satellite broadband for a number of months and have some observations that may be useful to prospective users. I have the “top” package that any of the current companies can provide this being max speed of 20mbps and 100Gb download allowance. It is a fairly expensive service but I am happy to pay for something so important.

As other posters have mentioned latency can be a real issue, it is for me. Accessing services in the cloud and having them time out is really quite painful. Accessing databases and attempting to make changes only to find that the latency has caused some serious issues is a genuine concern.

The speed that is advertised is hardly ever reached, throttling is constant. I pay for 20mbps and routinely see a lot less, 5 is quite common and lower at “peak” times. Throw more than one person at it, during these times, and it is really painful.

The download limit is expensive, but for some necessary, however speeds are so bad that there is often no point trying.

If you have 0.5Mbps then this sounds wonderful to you. However the bandwidth specs are such a poor indicator of speed when considered alongside latency issues. Yes email etc can be accomplished, but better than 0.5mbps lines? I would suggest multiple lines are more effective.

To put that in context, BT recently had an offer of about £170 for a year’s line rental with £5/month unlimited broadband. Satellite service is costing me £70/month. It is cheaper and better to have multiple lines at lower speeds with much lower latency.

Satellite provision is not the way to go to reach the last 5%, it is a massive cop out and the figures presented are skewed. Most local authorities, BDUK and the Government quote the mbps figures, these are acceptable with fixed lines or WIFI delivery but not with a satellite. It is a measure of last resort.
#16
Good Morning David,

Thank you for sharing your experiences of satellite with us.

Whilst I would observe that it is probably a reasonable solution as an absolute last resort, I do share your views that it isn't the solution for the last 5%. I am hoping that the Government do not declare satellite as the solution to the last 5%, but I am aware that certain corners of BDUK are uttering the words 'Superfast satellite' which I have to say is really stretching reality.

My own view is that there are certain emerging technologies that may well provide the answer, but as with all things, it will come down to available money and the appetite of Government to go for it, although I am encouraged by recent positive statements from them regarding what they wish to achieve where broadband is concerned.

Regards
Steve
#17
David / Steve

Thankyou David for sharing real life experience of satellite broadband - this seems to mirror other peoples findings throughout the country.

Steve - let us not forget the people (like me) who are still waiting to achieve the minimum standard (2mb) by the end of this year - its not all about the remaining 5%.

Can I also assume that the councils are lobbying parliament / BDUK against satellite technology in favour of a more effective solution based on the collective evidence similar to Davids? As I (for one) would be extremely disappointed to be burdened with a costly and non-performing permanent solution just to satisfy a Whitehall statistic.

Regards
Jon
#18
David / Steve

Thankyou David for sharing real life experience of satellite broadband - this seems to mirror other peoples findings throughout the country.

Steve - let us not forget the people (like me) who are still waiting to achieve the minimum standard (2mb) by the end of this year - its not all about the remaining 5%.

Can I also assume that the councils are lobbying parliament / BDUK against satellite technology in favour of a more effective solution based on the collective evidence similar to Davids? As I (for one) would be extremely disappointed to be burdened with a costly and non-performing permanent solution just to satisfy a Whitehall statistic.

Regards
Jon
#19
Good Morning Jon,

We haven't forgotten those that cannot achieve 2Mb/s and we realise that the last 5% isn't the full story.

To that end, BDUK has finally agreed the process for satellite installation and we have published it on our website as of last week.

My personal view is that Satellite isn't the answer and I will be trying to persuade BDUK likewise, but I am only one voice so we will see what comes.

Regards
Steve
#20
Happy New Year All

So I have received a satellite installation code covering some of the installation cost, and now faced with a decision - do I commit to a minimum 12 month contract to pay upwards of £40 / month for a (minimal) 25GB allowance that is not guaranteed to perform consistently or significantly better than my current BT broadband.
I can find no substantial evidence to give me any real confidence in the satellite route, and I see no real help from OnLincs relating to the next phases, timescales, and alternative technologies being considered.
This is not intended to be a dig at OnLincs, but how is anyone supposed to make an informed decision given the circumstances, and how are the numerous rural residents like me to be convinced that we are going to see a proper solution in the foreseeable future.

Regards
Jon
#21
Good Afternoon Jon,

Happy New Year to you.

I can understand your concerns re. the satellite solution. As I've said on a number of occassions, I don't believe it is the long term answer and can only be seen as an interim solution.

As I understand things, at least one of the suppliers of satellite has stated that should a fibre solution become available in an area during the term of your contract with them, then they would allow you to leave the contract without penalty.

My apologies for the ongoing delay in publishing Phase 2. We had an original Draft, but sent it back for a number of technical issues. We are still awaiting the revised version of the deployment plan to reflect changes we asked for and additional funding added in.

As soon as we get it, we will publish.

Regards
Steve
#22
Absolute abomination, told that we can claim the subsidy which was great news but after hours of phoning around to satellite broadband providers we find out that we are outside the footprint for that as well. What is a man to do.....?
#23
Good Morning Darren,

Please accept our apologies. I haven't heard of this one before and we will see what we can find out from our end.

Regards
Steve
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